Interview with Andre Jonker

This interview presents the personal story of an expat who came to the Netherlands under the Highly Skilled Migrant scheme and received direct support from All About Expats. This article is intended for informational purposes only and does not replace personal advice. For more information about our services, please feel free to contact us.

When Andre Jonker moved from Johannesburg, South Africa, to the Netherlands in 2021, he didn’t just start a new job, he started a whole new chapter of life with his wife. “I think you should just check the date, but it’s been four years now,” he laughs. Originally settling in Almelo, the couple lived there for about a year and a half before relocating to South Holland, where Andre now works at IOB.

Andre’s move wasn’t just a leap across continents, it was a carefully managed process. “Essentially, I was recruited through Nlist,” he explains. “They handled all the recruiting with engineering companies, the contractual parts, the visa… everything.” Even now, Andre continues to work under All About Expats for certain administrative and HR matters. “Technically, I’m still under them,” he says. “So I still get to do all the things they manage, like promotions, raises, leases, and even sports or finance-related questions. The finance department here works a lot with All About Expats still.”

Reflecting on his experience, Andre is candid about the balance of convenience and trust that comes with such a comprehensive service. “It’s not a complaint at all, but four years ago, it’s not easy to remember everything. What I do remember is working with Patrick. He was supremely effective in organizing all documentation and guiding us through the process. Every time, he said, ‘Do this, do that,’ and it became very clear how much they actually do.”

Andre notes that while the company made his move seamless, it also meant he didn’t always know what was going on. “Sometimes I felt like I didn’t know what I must do because my company organized everything for us. I had to put all my trust in them, but luckily, it paid off.” That trust extended beyond immigration paperwork.

“When I wanted to get a car loan, the financing company had trouble because of my contract type. Patrick stepped in, clarified everything, and I got the loan quickly. He didn’t have to do that, but it was a big help.”

Andre also highlights the support he has received over the years from the All About Expats team. “Even small things, just some info, I always got help easily. I’m very, very happy with them and would recommend it to anyone.” Looking back, Andre credits both Nlist and All About Expats with making his transition smooth. “There was a bit of split responsibility; Nlist did more with housing, and All About Expats handled the rest. They even helped with things I didn’t know existed, like the 30% ruling. I just handed them the forms, and they took care of everything.”

Andre came to the Netherlands to work at IOB. “I came as a structural engineer or constructor, and at the moment I work for a company called IOB. Structural calculations for buildings and structures. Essentially engineering.” His role has expanded beyond calculations. “There’s an extra part where I have to do a lot of advising and coordination with other parties, contractors, architects, specialists… it’s a fairly complex job. Originally I just did calculations, but that’s obviously grown now into a bit more of a management role.”

Andre’s work in the Netherlands closely mirrors his experience in South Africa. “Yes, it’s almost exactly the same,” he says. He also found the work culture similar. “There’s very much similarities. If there weren’t so many, it probably wouldn’t have been a success.” His first placement wasn’t perfect, but the Dutch job market allowed him to find a better fit. “The first company I was placed at wasn’t perfect. But the nice thing in the Netherlands is that there’s always other work. I looked for another opportunity, found something else, and it’s been a great success.”

The move was motivated by professional growth and exposure to high-standard engineering projects. “Not that my career was lacking in South Africa, but engineering-wise, high-standard projects are being executed here, and the industry is well organized. I said, ‘I can really grow my career and further my expertise in construction,’ and that’s exactly what happened.”

Working in the Netherlands has improved both his technical skills and his understanding of workplace culture. “I’ve become a much better engineer, not only technically, but also in working with people. Culturally, I learned how people deal with each other within and between companies.” Andre reflects on his journey with satisfaction: “It’s quite work-focused, quite a successful career. You can have a good life anywhere, but here I’ve been able to develop both professionally and personally.”

Andre admits that the hardest part of moving was being away from family. “If there is a negative point to all of this, it is missing my family. But the way my career is going, it’s also financially possible to go back home quite often for holidays. Once you’re set up here, it’s not that difficult.”

Moving abroad had always been Andre’s aspiration, but language was a key consideration. “I could only go to countries or companies that speak English. I considered the UK, Ireland, and New Zealand. But then Nlist, the recruiter working with All About Expats, approached me and said there’s lots of work in the Netherlands. That’s when it clicked, it made sense.” Andre emphasizes how quickly he adapted: “Within 18 months, I could live my private life in Dutch culture quite well, and I could also work successfully in Dutch. It wasn’t my first choice, but I was quite happy, because living in Europe is very nice. The Netherlands offered a great balance, work, culture, and proximity to the rest of Europe.”

He reflects on the experience with satisfaction: “From the outside, you read about work-life balance here in the Netherlands, and many people want to be part of European culture. I’ve been pleasantly surprised, it’s been great.”

Andre Jonker appreciates the professional yet relaxed work culture in the Netherlands. “The expected work or the work expectation is quite low. There’s almost no stress put on me. The only person who puts pressure on me is myself.” He emphasizes the freedom to choose how much effort to invest: “If I want to reach more success, then I’m free to do so. It’s very healthy.”

He also highlights the approachable management culture. “It’s very easy. I can just walk to my boss and say, ‘I need a bit of time off,’ and it’s never a problem.” Comparing it to South Africa, he notes, “In South Africa… it’s almost that American work culture. Everybody pushes 40-hour weeks minimum, and you need to do more than that to achieve some level of success.”

Andre works in a company that is mostly Dutch, with about 10% international colleagues. “Because I’m Afrikaans with a traditional Dutch heritage, I assimilated quite easily with my Dutch colleagues, and also with international colleagues. Sometimes I act a bit as a bridge between them.” His wife’s team in Rotterdam is more mixed, roughly 50% Dutch and 50% international.

Comparing his experience with South Africa, Andre sees a clear difference in work culture. “In South Africa, the client is king. Here, it’s more like the employee is king. In South Africa, you look after the clients; in the Netherlands, they look after the employees so that the employees will look after the clients. That’s a great distinction.”

Andre moved to the Netherlands with his wife. “No, we came together. She said, ‘There’s no way I can leave him behind. It’ll be too hard.’” The first few years were challenging as they set up their new life, but “the sweet spot was between two and three years when we finally realized we are set up, and now we can look to the future and calm down a bit.”

His wife quickly found work in the Netherlands. “She’s a visual merchandiser for a clothing company. At the moment she works for Costes in Rotterdam.” Andre describes the first months in the Netherlands as tough and isolating. “We came in October, and I think the winter was a lot heavier than I thought it would be. It really hit harder than I expected.”

He also reflects on his own naivety about the country. “I had this idea that it is all Amsterdam, everyone driving Teslas, and life is easy. But it’s not like that. The town where I stayed was very far on the other side of the country. Some towns are easier to assimilate into as an international person, but sometimes it can be harder. We sometimes felt very isolated and alone.”

Andre mentions that the timing and location played a role in the difficulty of settling in. “Maybe if we hadn’t immigrated at that time of year, or if we hadn’t moved to the Far East, it might have been a bit different.”

Another significant challenge was misaligned expectations with his first employer. “I think this has nothing to do with All About Expats, but more on my side and on Nlist’s side. The expectation I had from my employer and what my employer expected from me, we didn’t go into the details enough. My employer was very happy they could find labour, and I was very happy to find a job in Europe, but we rushed a bit quickly.”

He continues, “We actually should have done more technical interviews to align on what the job expectations were. Not only did I live in a town I didn’t enjoy too much, I also worked for an employer with different expectations than mine. If you do work you’re not in love with, you’re not going to have a good time.” It took time before things improved. “Only about a year and a half later, when I moved to my current company, did things really start working out. That’s when I started to feel settled and happy with both my work and my life here.”

Before moving to the Netherlands, Andre Jonker had no friends or family living there. “No, no. No friends or a family member that was there,” he says. His preparation mostly came from online research. “I mostly did YouTube, specifically channels of people who were also expats. That’s basically all we did. Maybe we did too little, to be honest.”

He reflects on being a bit naive. “We said, ‘Let’s just go, let’s see what it is.’ It looked like a good job, a good place to raise a child. On paper, the benefits looked great.” In retrospect, he realizes that joining expat communities would have helped. “There’s a Facebook group called South Africans moving to the Netherlands. People there give realistic expectations about what life here is really like. That would have been handy for us if I had known about it at the time.”

Arriving in a smaller town in the southeastern part of the country posed its own challenges. “Some of these towns are not very international. It could have been difficult if we were just dropped here from the airport and had to figure everything out ourselves. For a student, maybe, but for a person with a family, it’s a lot to consider.”

Luckily, Andre had support. “Nlist gave me a contact person, who I could call with dumb things, like how to set up an energy contract. She even picked me up at the airport and took us to our apartment. That was quite important.”

Andre had only ten days before starting work, due to COVID-19 quarantine requirements. “I flew on the 3rd of October and started on the 13th. It was a very different world to arrive here and go straight into work.” While the interview excerpt ends before detailing all benefits, Andre hints at key advantages: “On paper, the benefits of All About Expats looked good. A good job, a good place to raise a child, and a supportive onboarding process. That made the move manageable, especially with a family.”

When asked what makes living and working in the Netherlands worthwhile, Andre Jonker lights up. He explains that there are many aspects, both practical and personal, that make the country an excellent place to settle down. “For maybe not from most important to least important, but one thing that really impressed my brother when he was here, he really loved the public transport. It’s maybe something that you guys take for granted, but the public transport is a really big thing.”

Andre also appreciates the cycling infrastructure: “Just bike everywhere is a very underrated thing. I think Dutch people don’t understand how great it is to just be able to get on your bike and not have to ride on the road.” He loves how centrally located the Netherlands is within Europe. “Being fairly central in Europe, you can easily travel anywhere. In one week, we went to Belgium, Germany, and France, it’s amazing how easy it is.”

Now that Andre and his wife have started a family, they especially value the Dutch education system: “We’ve got a baby now who’s four months old and just started kindergarten. We are very happy with the system.” He was initially nervous about sending his baby to daycare, but soon realized how much care and respect Dutch society has for children. “It’s hard to say, ‘Okay, you’re a baby, go to school,’ but culturally, the Netherlands sees children very highly. There’s a lot of effort to make sure children have good lives, and we can already see that at kindergarten.” Andre adds that he can picture a great future for his daughter: “We can imagine her life here, being able to get on her bike and go to school safely, that’s something we really appreciate.”

Another benefit that stands out for Andre and his wife is the flexibility in working hours. “In South Africa, it’s standard to have a 40-hour contract. Here, that’s not a requirement. There’s the possibility of a four-day or three-day contract. Now that my wife has become a mother, that’s very important to her.”

Although Andre still works full-time, he values that the Dutch system offers the option for balance: “If someone thinks that one day they want to work 32 hours, that’s also quite amazing.” He also highlights how understanding his employer has been since becoming a father: “Having that extra stress from the baby, my company understands that. They don’t expect 100% efficiency right now, they’re just happy for me.”

Andre notices clear differences in social spontaneity between the Netherlands and South Africa. “In South Africa, if someone wants to have a BBQ or go for a beer, it just happens. Here, if someone wants to do something, it’ll be on the agenda for weeks before.” He laughs about how much planning goes into simple get-togethers: “One time, I texted a guy I knew half an hour before to come have a beer, and he came, but he was very flustered, like he couldn’t compute that kind of spontaneity.” While he finds it different, he doesn’t necessarily see it as negative, just part of the Dutch way of organizing life.

At work, Andre has noticed that Dutch companies are very professionally structured and efficient. “The company where I am now is quite professionally set up. The amount of banter and small talk is much less.” He appreciates this clear separation between work and personal life: “Sometimes the lines got blurred in South Africa in terms of efficiency. Here, people work fewer hours but much harder during those hours. If someone works 32 hours, those 32 hours they work really hard.” He also observes a high level of competence and equality: “In South Africa, you had very effective and some ineffective employees. Here, everyone is good. Everyone’s well-educated and has a good mindset.”

Andre emphasizes that Dutch professionals show deep respect for each other’s expertise, something he admires. “In terms of professional aspect, there’s a big appreciation for each other’s crafts. If you do a certain job, I’ll respect what you do and what you have to say, and you’ll do the same for me.” This fosters collaboration and balance: “In South Africa, it was more aggressive, like ‘you do this, and if you don’t, I’ll find someone who will.’ Here, there’s coherence and respect, even between external partners who don’t work for each other.”

Another cultural learning moment for Andre was understanding how Dutch people give feedback, or rather, when they don’t. “In South Africa, I was used to a lot of feedback from team leads. Here, it’s almost like you don’t get feedback, and someone told me: ‘If you hear nothing, it means it’s good.’ That was something I had to learn.” He appreciates this straightforwardness and has adapted well to the Dutch direct yet calm communication style.

Andre’s future in the Netherlands looks bright. Professionally, he has clear ambitions: “I would hope to become the head of my department. The Dutch government sets it up for you to have a business. They want you to prosper because if you prosper, they prosper.”

On a personal level, he’s looking forward to raising his daughter in Dutch society: “I’m very excited to see my child’s life here, when she starts riding her bike, celebrating Sinterklaas, going to school, and eventually university. That’s something I missed in my own first 30 years, so now I’ll see it through her.” He adds warmly: “The idea is definitely to stay here. And maybe I can also learn more myself about work-life balance, to do it a bit better.”

Andre admits that building a new social circle in the Netherlands wasn’t easy. “At the moment, most of my Dutch friends I’ve met through work, and the same goes for my wife’s work,” he explains. It’s a practical approach, he says, as work naturally brings people together. Still, he recognizes that forming deeper friendships outside the workplace can take more time.

There’s also a growing South African community around him. “I know a few South Africans that I studied with and went to school with. They’ve also moved here in the meantime. There’s quite a large group of South Africans here.” However, Andre has learned not to rely solely on shared nationality for connection: “I’ve learned that I wouldn’t be friends with someone just because they’re South African. It’s like when you go on holiday to Spain and meet someone who’s Dutch, it doesn’t mean you’re going to be best friends.” He prefers relationships that grow naturally rather than out of convenience or shared origin.

Andre admits that making new friends as an adult can be quite hard, even if you’re local. “If I had to go back to South Africa and knew no one, even as a South African, it would be hard to make friends, because most of your friends come from school, university, or family.” Now that he and his wife have a child, he expects their social life to expand.

“Now that we’ve got a child and she’s going to school, I think we’ll probably meet a lot more people. You always meet people who are going through the same things as you, that makes it easier.” He and his wife haven’t used expat or ‘South Africans in the Netherlands’ group apps much. “We haven’t really done the effort to go on them. I mean, if I go on a South African-in-the-Netherlands group app and the only thing we talk about is South Africa, I feel like I came to Europe to expand my horizons. I’d much rather speak to a Dutch person.”

Andre speaks Dutch well enough to work and socialize, but he’s aware of his limits: “I’ve reached probably a B2 level officially. I’m past the point where people ask me, ‘Sorry, what did you say?’ But when I have to explain complex engineering issues, it gets hard, I have to repeat myself in different ways.” His Dutch was initially self-taught with his wife’s help, but now he’s taking it further: “I negotiated with my company to send me for a new course, to take it to the next level.” He knows how important language is for connection and success: “If you really want to embrace life here, your Dutch needs to be good. It’s crucial for connecting with colleagues and friends.”

With a baby and two jobs, finding time for Dutch practice is challenging. “Maybe my listening is already quite good, but my speaking is not the best because I speak less.” He and his wife try to immerse themselves at home: “My wife watches Dutch shows, and we try to watch them with Dutch subtitles so we can read along. It’s amazing how wide the vocabulary actually is, there’s a lot going on.” Still, he admits: “It takes effort. You have to listen to the radio, watch movies, read, and speak. But it’s not easy learning a new language at the age of 30, that I’ll say.”

Without hesitation, Andre says he would absolutely make the same choice again: “Definitely, yeah. Probably even more so.” When asked what message he would share with others considering a move abroad, Andre offers thoughtful advice: “If I sum everything up, there are good things and bad things here, and good things and bad things in South Africa. Even though I miss my country, my family, and my friends, the sum of all the parts still makes me feel very good here. I’m very happy with my life.” He emphasizes that adaptability and mindset are key to a positive experience: “Even with those things that some people might not be able to deal with, I think a lot of people can. Me and my wife are both very happy with the way our lives are going. That’s what it’s about, I think.”

Andre reflects on what immigration has taught him most: “It’s what you make of it. Whether you live here, in Johannesburg, or in Sicily, it can be bad everywhere and it can be good everywhere. It’s really about what you make of the situation.” He’s aware that the Netherlands offers “bonuses,” like stability, infrastructure, and work-life balance, but he believes happiness doesn’t come automatically with relocation: “If you’re really unhappy in South Africa, I don’t believe the Netherlands will make you happy. It might give you the tools to be happy, but you must choose to be happy yourself.”

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